They certainly have chutzpah! In the mean time “a review” is being carried of the evidence that the BCC happily promoted bogus treatments. Reply
Obviously it now becomes relevant to ask them, on the record, who is carrying out the review, when will it be reported, what evidence will be included, particularly will it cover the same evidence that the BCA introduced into the debate in defence of their position and which was measured and found to amount to less than a jot. FOI request? I’m not very familiar with the niceties of the rules governing such things. Reply
BSM This can be done easily to the GCC by sending an email to [email protected]. See the GCC’s FOI Publication Scheme. Alternatively, you can do it publicly on the What do They Know website. Reply
The GCC appear to be now under intollerable pressure. They are a state sanctioned regulator of a pseudomedical cult that believes in magical and irrational healing claims. The GCC have to keep up the pretence that what they are doing is real, but reality is now hammering hard on its door. It is difficult to predict where this will go, but the seismic forces are now pressing hard on major fault lines and some give is innevitable. Will the GCC stick to what appears to be its obstinacy in pretending that chiropractic is evidence based? (However they define it?) This can only result in a massive and prolonged assault on it by its critics. Or will it try to usher in a new order of low key chiropractic that operates almost exclusively on management of lower back pain? This would tear the profession to bits and require a complete re-evaluation of chiropractic regulation and training. (Does it really need a 4 years honours degree to do a bit of limited massage?) The chiropractors may kick and scream at this second option but will be totally constrained by legislation as to what they can do. Implosion would be innevitable. My guess is that the GCC will try to bluster this out and hope that a) their critics lose steam and b) the CHRE/HPC are themselves incompetent and rubber stamp the tattered remains of the GCC’s credibility. That would be a disaster for the public. Reply
(Does it really need a 4 years honours degree to do a bit of limited massage?) Arrogant twat. Does it really take a know nothing self important idiot to post such drivel. This INTOLLERABLE PRESSURE you call it, is a handfull of bloggers with nothing better to do. “sigh” You won’t alter the GCC or the publics view on Chiropractic. You are not up to it. 2400 chiropractors helping thousands of people every week and you think this blogg and the other 2 or 3 will make a difference? Get a LIFE. Reply
I think they will make a difference. Already the GCC has employed several more staff to deal with these issues and the eyes of many people are on them. Maybe you would also like to substantiate your assertion that I am an ‘arrogant twat’ and a ‘self important idiot’ by providing some evidence that chiropractic is nothing other than a bit of a back rub. I sense desperation… Reply
To Fed Up I honestly wouldn’t bother replying to these bloggers. I have been following them on and off ove rthe last few months. If a chiropractor makes a valid point they either ignore it, or say that we are not sticking to the issue or they insult us by calling us loads of names. We both know how good our syllabus was when we studied in college and why we studied it -I was personally taught by neurologists and GP’s when I studied. We all know what are patients tell us every week regarding the work we do. The minute you called a blogger he was an arrogant twat he wanted you to substantiate the reasons. However these bloggers over the past few months are telling the world that we are glorified massage therapists,that we manipulate necks unsafely as compared to osteos and physios, we are fleecing the nation of their money etc, we all live in mansion and we are quacks and endless other insults which have not been substantiated. They are not interested in including the fact that osteopaths claim to treat colic etc nor are they interested that physios treat people suffering whiplash, asthma etc. They claim they do not have time. They are not interested in debate, they loathe chiropractors and nothing we say will ever change their attitude. They would argue with you that the earth wasn’t flat and the grass wasn’t green if it suited their argument. I’m sure I will be subject to a witty reply by them – not really fussed either way. Reply
Just another thought – can you substantiate the 4 years honours degree to do a bit of limited massage. What is limited massage, are we so low down the chain that we can only perform limited massage – On that note I must be really thick as my course was 5 years and what is limited massage – limited to one part of the body – limited to one muscle – limited in time. Those massage therapists are really lucky there allowed to undertake unlimited massage unlike our training in limited massage. Note – the most common complaint presented to a chiro clinicis low back pain – in my clinic at least 80% of patients suffer back pain – so treating low back pain isn’t really that low key Oops I probably need to substantiate that. Oh and I am not sticking to the issue of colic. If we will ever be restricted to treating just low back pain because there is no evidence for treating anything else then all the other practitioners who treat neck pain and other joint ailments will also be affected because surely they will need evidence. If a physio or osteo can treat more than low back pain than so would we – because we also use similar techniques mobilisation, stretching, exercise etc not just manipulation. The reason we are different is the methodology of the way we apply the stretches and trigger point releases and the combination in which we do it. Do I need to substantiate? Reply
I have just sent the following to the GCC, lets see what happens. Dear Sir, On page 2 of your leaflet “What can I expect when I see a chiropractor?” available from your website via Publications/Patient Information Leaflet you state “A review is being carried out of the evidence as to whether chiropractic may ease some of the symptoms of some types of: asthma headaches, including migraine and infant colic.” Under the Freedom Of Information Act 2000 please provide me with the following: a) a list of the reviewers for the evidence and there qualifications to make such a review; b) a list of the papers to be included; c) the expected timescales for the review; d) the maximum time you will allow for the review. Yours faithfully, Bender Reply
Dear “Whatever”, the osteos and physios may deserve some time in the spotlight, but they do not suffer from from the delusion that supposed spinal subluxations cause all disease. Chiros do suffer from that delusion and from that false base advise against vaccination. This makes them a danger to public health Reply
I think you’re reading a bit too much into this and I would cution against getting too excited about your ‘success” in scoring another “victory” against chiropractic just yet. Remember, the GCC is currently dealing with at least a 1500% increase in workload at the moment, as a result of one individual irresponsibly simultaneously submitting approximately 600 vexatious complaints. I suspect that, rather than committing unnecessary time and money to dealing with the pranks of a few troublemakers, the GCC has chosen to take the easier route of simply changing the wording of this leaflet until more time can be given to considering the matter fully. Reply
whatever said, “However these bloggers over the past few months are telling the world that we are glorified massage therapists,that we manipulate necks unsafely as compared to osteos and physios, we are fleecing the nation of their money etc, we all live in mansion and we are quacks…” Goodness! I think it’s very unfair of anyone to suggest you all live in mansions. Reply
David Can you explain why you think it was an irresponsible and vexatious prank? Do you think it is OK for chiropractors to break their own Code of Practice with impunity? Reply
How will the ASA rule on the new wording? “A review is being carried out of the evidence…” seems to imply there is grounds to support the treatment. Once the status of the “review” is known, the ASA can rule on a) whether “A review is being carried out” was true and b) whether the overall impression given by this page of the leaflet is that chiropractic can help with asthma, migraine and colic. I’m not in the U.K. so I can’t sibmit the complaint. Reply
“On that note I must be really thick as my course was 5 years” Well, if the cap fits (and this one has bells on it), wear it. Reply
More seriously, how can it take 5 years to learn to crack backs when operating in an evidence-free vacuum? Lecturer: [Spouts random theory based on mythical subluxations] Whack the patient here. Student: [Whacks patient] Both drink coffee for 4 years, 11 months, 30 days, 23 hrs, 50mins. Reply
The anonymous COWARD “whatever” asks: “Do I need to substantiate?” Yes, you do. With a verifiable identity, no less. As for ‘fed up’, if your contribution is the standard of education and literacy amongst your fellow slavish brain-dead acolytes of the chiropractic religion, then it is little wonder that these back-quacks are buckling faster than an thin glass egg in the Mariana Trench. Reply
After 7 days and one reminder I have finally received an acknowledgment of my FoIA request to the GCC. (See post 10 for details) Reply