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	<title>Comments on: Bronfort on: Ear Infections</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/</link>
	<description>The random thoughts of a sceptical activist</description>
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		<title>By: malucachu</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-27736</link>
		<dc:creator>malucachu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-27736</guid>
		<description>We often see comments like osteopathy is a different treatment to chiropractic or physiotherapy. Osteopathy, chiropractic and physiotherapy are professions - not treatments.

Each may employ a wide range of treatments, some modestly evidence-based, most not at all, but if we are to examine what they offer we need to distinguish between the semantics of professional titles and the treatments provided by each profession (including overlaps).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We often see comments like osteopathy is a different treatment to chiropractic or physiotherapy. Osteopathy, chiropractic and physiotherapy are professions &#8211; not treatments.</p>
<p>Each may employ a wide range of treatments, some modestly evidence-based, most not at all, but if we are to examine what they offer we need to distinguish between the semantics of professional titles and the treatments provided by each profession (including overlaps).</p>
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		<title>By: pv</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4871</link>
		<dc:creator>pv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4871</guid>
		<description>Given the comprehensive demolition of Bronfort&#039;s effort to show chiroquackery is useful for ear infections, I have to ask how much is down to ignorance and how much down to plain, straightforward dishonesty. Chiroquackery is a business so I know where my vote goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the comprehensive demolition of Bronfort&#8217;s effort to show chiroquackery is useful for ear infections, I have to ask how much is down to ignorance and how much down to plain, straightforward dishonesty. Chiroquackery is a business so I know where my vote goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>Yes Andrew, I think skeptics in all countries should be looking the claims being made and the regulatory frameworks that chiros have to work within and see what can be done about about these outrageous claims. I bet every one of these regulatory frameworks &#8212; whether statutory or not &#8212; say something about &#039;protecting the public&#039;. They now need to be called to account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Andrew, I think skeptics in all countries should be looking the claims being made and the regulatory frameworks that chiros have to work within and see what can be done about about these outrageous claims. I bet every one of these regulatory frameworks &mdash; whether statutory or not &mdash; say something about &#8216;protecting the public&#8217;. They now need to be called to account.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Gilbey</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4857</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Gilbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4857</guid>
		<description>No RCT = No evidence = No claim = No way!

I suspect this excerpt from the New Zealand Chiropractic association would be perceived by potential clients as a claim! And just look at those claims! Who needs traditional medicine!!(Check other similar claims and a rather one-sided &#039;selection&#039; of &#039;research&#039; at http://www.chiropractic.org.nz/research-literature )

Other Health Issues and Conditions 
A smaller number of clinical trials alongside other preliminary studies, case reports and anecdotal evidence show that chiropractic may be effective in many different conditions such as colic, ear infection and other paediatric issues, HIV and immune problems, asthma, multiple sclerosis and other nervous system disorders, infertility issues, digestive and cardiovascular health etc. It is important to realise that chiropractic is not the treatment of any condition. The purpose of chiropractic care is to reduce interference to the nerve system, allowing the person to experience greater function and an overall improvement in quality of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No RCT = No evidence = No claim = No way!</p>
<p>I suspect this excerpt from the New Zealand Chiropractic association would be perceived by potential clients as a claim! And just look at those claims! Who needs traditional medicine!!(Check other similar claims and a rather one-sided &#8216;selection&#8217; of &#8216;research&#8217; at <a href="http://www.chiropractic.org.nz/research-literature" rel="nofollow">http://www.chiropractic.org.nz/research-literature</a> )</p>
<p>Other Health Issues and Conditions<br />
A smaller number of clinical trials alongside other preliminary studies, case reports and anecdotal evidence show that chiropractic may be effective in many different conditions such as colic, ear infection and other paediatric issues, HIV and immune problems, asthma, multiple sclerosis and other nervous system disorders, infertility issues, digestive and cardiovascular health etc. It is important to realise that chiropractic is not the treatment of any condition. The purpose of chiropractic care is to reduce interference to the nerve system, allowing the person to experience greater function and an overall improvement in quality of life.</p>
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		<title>By: Skepticat</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4853</link>
		<dc:creator>Skepticat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4853</guid>
		<description>@middleoftheroad

There is nobody &quot;like the above&quot;, as you put it. He is unique and much beloved by Zeno and by me. Why - we&#039;ve even given him his own forum 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=61&amp;sid=ed2e5f1b800d88cb9b37bc858933a53c&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;


So there&#039;s no danger of anything turning into a childish melee. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@middleoftheroad</p>
<p>There is nobody &#8220;like the above&#8221;, as you put it. He is unique and much beloved by Zeno and by me. Why &#8211; we&#8217;ve even given him his own forum<br />
<a href="http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=61&amp;sid=ed2e5f1b800d88cb9b37bc858933a53c" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>So there&#8217;s no danger of anything turning into a childish melee. <img src='http://www.zenosblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: middleoftheroad</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4851</link>
		<dc:creator>middleoftheroad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 19:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4851</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised it took so long for  someone like the above to comment on your site. The majority of the people in these skeptical blogs are radically against everything that hasn&#039;t been explained,
or approved  by a scientist. 
Eventually, you get get the radical opposite to post and what is supposed to be an intelligent 
debate turns into something a childish melee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised it took so long for  someone like the above to comment on your site. The majority of the people in these skeptical blogs are radically against everything that hasn&#8217;t been explained,<br />
or approved  by a scientist.<br />
Eventually, you get get the radical opposite to post and what is supposed to be an intelligent<br />
debate turns into something a childish melee.</p>
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		<title>By: Common Symptoms of Baby Acid Reflux</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4850</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Symptoms of Baby Acid Reflux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4850</guid>
		<description>[...] Bronfort on: Ear Infections [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bronfort on: Ear Infections [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: re</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4849</link>
		<dc:creator>re</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4849</guid>
		<description>with the atheists: 
 
they start begging when they start dying... 
 
they PAY THE PRICE FOR ATTACKING THE SUPERNATURAL - 
 
with their LIVES... 
 
CRYSTAL NIGHT TONIGHT! 
 
Atheists, 
 
but you have NO ANSWER TO DEATH... therefore you FAIL... 
 
THE DEATH TRAP 
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/ 
******** 
 
THE REAL QUESTION: 
 
DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE? 
 
AND THE ANSWER - NO! 
 
visit: 
 
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f30/does-ath-ism-have-future-no-11202.html#post66570 
 
Shermer - Harris - Myers - Dawkins - Randi VS. NOSTRADAMUS - EINSTEIN - MARKUZE 
 
you&#039;re ANNIHILATED!

Atheists,

Repent and turn to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>with the atheists: </p>
<p>they start begging when they start dying&#8230; </p>
<p>they PAY THE PRICE FOR ATTACKING THE SUPERNATURAL &#8211; </p>
<p>with their LIVES&#8230; </p>
<p>CRYSTAL NIGHT TONIGHT! </p>
<p>Atheists, </p>
<p>but you have NO ANSWER TO DEATH&#8230; therefore you FAIL&#8230; </p>
<p>THE DEATH TRAP </p>
<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/</a><br />
******** </p>
<p>THE REAL QUESTION: </p>
<p>DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE? </p>
<p>AND THE ANSWER &#8211; NO! </p>
<p>visit: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f30/does-ath-ism-have-future-no-11202.html#post66570" rel="nofollow">http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f30/does-ath-ism-have-future-no-11202.html#post66570</a> </p>
<p>Shermer &#8211; Harris &#8211; Myers &#8211; Dawkins &#8211; Randi VS. NOSTRADAMUS &#8211; EINSTEIN &#8211; MARKUZE </p>
<p>you&#8217;re ANNIHILATED!</p>
<p>Atheists,</p>
<p>Repent and turn to God.</p>
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		<title>By: Skeptic Barista</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4819</link>
		<dc:creator>Skeptic Barista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4819</guid>
		<description>Excellent Blogging!

Sets out in very clear terms just how little of the evidence chiropractors are referring to is actually chiropractic evidence!

I&#039;ve already asked for the General Osteopathic Councils verdict of the Bronfort report (as it mentions OMT). Their reply and how they view the report makes an interesting comparison to the views fo the GCC.  Hopefully blogging on this tomorrow.

Good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent Blogging!</p>
<p>Sets out in very clear terms just how little of the evidence chiropractors are referring to is actually chiropractic evidence!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already asked for the General Osteopathic Councils verdict of the Bronfort report (as it mentions OMT). Their reply and how they view the report makes an interesting comparison to the views fo the GCC.  Hopefully blogging on this tomorrow.</p>
<p>Good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Wode</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/04/bronfort-on-ear-infections/comment-page-1/#comment-4810</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Wode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1541#comment-4810</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, once again, Zeno.

@ Michael

Yes, re Bronfort and bias, it’s interesting to note what Ernst has had to say about him the past.  The last sentence of the quote below speaks volumes:

Quote
“Bronfort[10] concluded that SM and/or mobilization are viable options for treating low back and neck pain. Bronfort[13] concluded that SM has a better effect than massage and a comparable effect to prophylactic drugs for headache. Reid[21] found only limited evidence from methodologically poor trials for effectiveness in cervicogenic dizziness. All other conclusions agreed that the effectiveness of SM is not supported by the results from rigorous clinical trials].....Three systematic reviews were related to SM for neck pain[10-12] of which one reached a a positive[10] overall conclusion and this was the same review which reached a positive conclusion regarding back pain. The most authoritative of the three reviews[12] stated that SM/mobilization is effective only when combined with other interventions such as exercise and as a sole treatment for neck pain, it is not of demonstrable effectiveness.   Similarly, there are three systematic reviews of SM for headache.[13-15] While Bronfort et al.[13] concluded that SM is as effective as other interventions, the other two teams of reviewers[14,15] did not find conclusive evidence in favour of SM.....Our previous work[6] has shown that the conclusions of reviews of SM for back pain appear to be influenced by authorship and methodological quality such that authorship by osteopaths or chiropractors and low methodological quality are associated with a positive conclusion. It is perhaps relevant to note that all three of the overtly positive recommendations for SM in the indications back pain,[10] neck pain[10] and headache[13] originate from the same chiropractor.”

Ref:
E Ernst, P H Canter. A systematic review of systematic reviews of spinal manipulation  J R Soc Med 2006;99:192-196
http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/99/4/192?ijkey=67d13fec77bd5ae1759151315cce803fdc962330</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, once again, Zeno.</p>
<p>@ Michael</p>
<p>Yes, re Bronfort and bias, it’s interesting to note what Ernst has had to say about him the past.  The last sentence of the quote below speaks volumes:</p>
<p>Quote<br />
“Bronfort[10] concluded that SM and/or mobilization are viable options for treating low back and neck pain. Bronfort[13] concluded that SM has a better effect than massage and a comparable effect to prophylactic drugs for headache. Reid[21] found only limited evidence from methodologically poor trials for effectiveness in cervicogenic dizziness. All other conclusions agreed that the effectiveness of SM is not supported by the results from rigorous clinical trials]&#8230;..Three systematic reviews were related to SM for neck pain[10-12] of which one reached a a positive[10] overall conclusion and this was the same review which reached a positive conclusion regarding back pain. The most authoritative of the three reviews[12] stated that SM/mobilization is effective only when combined with other interventions such as exercise and as a sole treatment for neck pain, it is not of demonstrable effectiveness.   Similarly, there are three systematic reviews of SM for headache.[13-15] While Bronfort et al.[13] concluded that SM is as effective as other interventions, the other two teams of reviewers[14,15] did not find conclusive evidence in favour of SM&#8230;..Our previous work[6] has shown that the conclusions of reviews of SM for back pain appear to be influenced by authorship and methodological quality such that authorship by osteopaths or chiropractors and low methodological quality are associated with a positive conclusion. It is perhaps relevant to note that all three of the overtly positive recommendations for SM in the indications back pain,[10] neck pain[10] and headache[13] originate from the same chiropractor.”</p>
<p>Ref:<br />
E Ernst, P H Canter. A systematic review of systematic reviews of spinal manipulation  J R Soc Med 2006;99:192-196<br />
<a href="http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/99/4/192?ijkey=67d13fec77bd5ae1759151315cce803fdc962330" rel="nofollow">http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/99/4/192?ijkey=67d13fec77bd5ae1759151315cce803fdc962330</a></p>
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