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	<title>Comments on: Boots the Alternative Chemist</title>
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	<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/</link>
	<description>The random thoughts of a sceptical activist</description>
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		<title>By: Philco</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-3337</link>
		<dc:creator>Philco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-3337</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t what they&#039;re doing Fraud?

I went and had a look at the Fraud Act 2006.  IANAL, but 

&quot; Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation. Subsection (1)(a) makes clear that the representation must be made dishonestly. This test applies also to sections 3 and 4. The current definition of dishonesty was established in R v Ghosh [1982] Q.B.1053. That judgment sets a two-stage test. The first question is whether a defendant&#039;s behaviour would be regarded as dishonest by the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people. If answered positively, the second question is whether the defendant was aware that his conduct was dishonest and would be regarded as dishonest by reasonable and honest people.

11.     Subsection (1)(b) requires that the person must make the representation with the intention of making a gain or causing loss or risk of loss to another. The gain or loss does not actually have to take place. The same requirement applies to conduct criminalised by sections 3 and 4.

12.     Subsection (2) defines the meaning of &quot;false&quot; in this context and subsection (3) defines the meaning of &quot;representation&quot;. A representation is defined as false if it is untrue or misleading and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

13.     Subsection (3) provides that a representation means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to a person&#039;s state of mind.

14.     Subsection (4) provides that a representation may be express or implied. It can be stated in words or communicated by conduct. There is no limitation on the way in which the representation must be expressed. So it could be written or spoken or posted on a website. &quot;

Seems to me there might be a case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t what they&#8217;re doing Fraud?</p>
<p>I went and had a look at the Fraud Act 2006.  IANAL, but </p>
<p>&#8221; Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation. Subsection (1)(a) makes clear that the representation must be made dishonestly. This test applies also to sections 3 and 4. The current definition of dishonesty was established in R v Ghosh [1982] Q.B.1053. That judgment sets a two-stage test. The first question is whether a defendant&#8217;s behaviour would be regarded as dishonest by the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people. If answered positively, the second question is whether the defendant was aware that his conduct was dishonest and would be regarded as dishonest by reasonable and honest people.</p>
<p>11.     Subsection (1)(b) requires that the person must make the representation with the intention of making a gain or causing loss or risk of loss to another. The gain or loss does not actually have to take place. The same requirement applies to conduct criminalised by sections 3 and 4.</p>
<p>12.     Subsection (2) defines the meaning of &#8220;false&#8221; in this context and subsection (3) defines the meaning of &#8220;representation&#8221;. A representation is defined as false if it is untrue or misleading and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.</p>
<p>13.     Subsection (3) provides that a representation means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to a person&#8217;s state of mind.</p>
<p>14.     Subsection (4) provides that a representation may be express or implied. It can be stated in words or communicated by conduct. There is no limitation on the way in which the representation must be expressed. So it could be written or spoken or posted on a website. &#8221;</p>
<p>Seems to me there might be a case&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ed B</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2996</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2996</guid>
		<description>Since homeopaths emphasise that their remedies contain powerful, potentised &quot;water memory&quot;, how do they refute allegations that a proportion of this does not pass right through the patient and enter the water supply/food chain?

Statistically, the chances that the &quot;right&quot; patient will then be drinking the &quot;right&quot; potentised water (further diluted and strengthened by succussion in its journey through the pipes belonging to Southwest Water or whomever) at some point in the future are surely fairly high?

Maybe you could include a question about &quot;active ingredients&quot; in your next missive ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since homeopaths emphasise that their remedies contain powerful, potentised &#8220;water memory&#8221;, how do they refute allegations that a proportion of this does not pass right through the patient and enter the water supply/food chain?</p>
<p>Statistically, the chances that the &#8220;right&#8221; patient will then be drinking the &#8220;right&#8221; potentised water (further diluted and strengthened by succussion in its journey through the pipes belonging to Southwest Water or whomever) at some point in the future are surely fairly high?</p>
<p>Maybe you could include a question about &#8220;active ingredients&#8221; in your next missive <img src='http://www.zenosblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Boots the Alternative Chemist -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2988</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Boots the Alternative Chemist -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2988</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jo Brodie, Alan Henness. Alan Henness said: Update: my response to Boots: Zeno&#039;s Blog » Boots the Alternative Chemist: http://is.gd/6LnLn #ten23 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jo Brodie, Alan Henness. Alan Henness said: Update: my response to Boots: Zeno&#39;s Blog » Boots the Alternative Chemist: <a href="http://is.gd/6LnLn" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/6LnLn</a> #ten23 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hofflimits</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2903</link>
		<dc:creator>Hofflimits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2903</guid>
		<description>Maybe the thing to do would be for someone with a cold/dodgy leg/misaligned chachra to buy a homeopathic remedy and follow the course. When it doesn&#039;t work, to contact Boots and demand redress. 

Boots will, naturally, hide behind the fact that they don&#039;t *guarantee* any of their medicines work, conventional or otherwise. If it were a coventional drug, there would be supporting information they could use to defend their decision to stock it. But since there won&#039;t be for this, you demand to know the reason why they have sold you a drug that they know doesn&#039;t work. Can we then do them under trades description, given their position as a chemist and our reasonable expectation that they wouldn&#039;t sell something that they knew didn&#039;t work? A hypothetical argument is one thing, but might it not have more power if it was an actual upset customer demanding action, going to local trading standards, maybe also appearing on local news?

Yes I know you wouldn&#039;t atually have to take the potion, though it you did and documented it, then it might be useful supporting evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the thing to do would be for someone with a cold/dodgy leg/misaligned chachra to buy a homeopathic remedy and follow the course. When it doesn&#8217;t work, to contact Boots and demand redress. </p>
<p>Boots will, naturally, hide behind the fact that they don&#8217;t *guarantee* any of their medicines work, conventional or otherwise. If it were a coventional drug, there would be supporting information they could use to defend their decision to stock it. But since there won&#8217;t be for this, you demand to know the reason why they have sold you a drug that they know doesn&#8217;t work. Can we then do them under trades description, given their position as a chemist and our reasonable expectation that they wouldn&#8217;t sell something that they knew didn&#8217;t work? A hypothetical argument is one thing, but might it not have more power if it was an actual upset customer demanding action, going to local trading standards, maybe also appearing on local news?</p>
<p>Yes I know you wouldn&#8217;t atually have to take the potion, though it you did and documented it, then it might be useful supporting evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: SkepticBarista</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2899</link>
		<dc:creator>SkepticBarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2899</guid>
		<description>They may well have been trying to stop you bothering them.  The last response I got from them said &quot;In response to your final comments&quot; - How do they know it&#039;s my &#039;final&#039; comment!

Actually I have further questions for them that will be on their way at the weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They may well have been trying to stop you bothering them.  The last response I got from them said &#8220;In response to your final comments&#8221; &#8211; How do they know it&#8217;s my &#8216;final&#8217; comment!</p>
<p>Actually I have further questions for them that will be on their way at the weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: Si</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2734</link>
		<dc:creator>Si</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2734</guid>
		<description>Paul is right If one considers the dilution of a product before it is a homeopathic remedy it is difficult to understand how there is any scientific evidence for this to work as thers is unlikely to be many molecules (if any) of the original product in the final product Where is the scientific evidence</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul is right If one considers the dilution of a product before it is a homeopathic remedy it is difficult to understand how there is any scientific evidence for this to work as thers is unlikely to be many molecules (if any) of the original product in the final product Where is the scientific evidence</p>
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		<title>By: Mich</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2683</link>
		<dc:creator>Mich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2683</guid>
		<description>Just a thought, but maybe instead of stopping Boots selling overpriced water - perhaps we should encourage them to increase the price?

Given that research indicates that a more expensive placebo is more effective than a cheaper one - imagine all of the good that could be done by doubling the price!?! In fact, why stop there. Increase the price by a factor of 30 - imagine how incredibly effective that could be!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a thought, but maybe instead of stopping Boots selling overpriced water &#8211; perhaps we should encourage them to increase the price?</p>
<p>Given that research indicates that a more expensive placebo is more effective than a cheaper one &#8211; imagine all of the good that could be done by doubling the price!?! In fact, why stop there. Increase the price by a factor of 30 &#8211; imagine how incredibly effective that could be!</p>
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		<title>By: Skepticat</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2666</link>
		<dc:creator>Skepticat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2666</guid>
		<description>@atheismisdead

Spoken like a true Christian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@atheismisdead</p>
<p>Spoken like a true Christian.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2656</guid>
		<description>Lifelinking

I&#039;m scared to say anything - JoK may consider he has given me advice and send me a bill!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lifelinking</p>
<p>I&#8217;m scared to say anything &#8211; JoK may consider he has given me advice and send me a bill!</p>
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		<title>By: Lifelinking</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/01/boots-the-alternative-chemist/comment-page-1/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifelinking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=1010#comment-2655</guid>
		<description>Jack of Kent, that is priceless. Thank you for making my evening.

Zeno, well done.

Atheismisdead, your comments are obnoxious and silly. You appear to be a twit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack of Kent, that is priceless. Thank you for making my evening.</p>
<p>Zeno, well done.</p>
<p>Atheismisdead, your comments are obnoxious and silly. You appear to be a twit.</p>
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