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	<title>Comments on: We don&#8217;t do drugs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/</link>
	<description>The random thoughts of a sceptical activist</description>
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		<title>By: Zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-684</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-684</guid>
		<description>AmatsuHealth is still a sponsor but the contradiction is still there: many chiropractors appear to eschew conventional medicine and drugs, but have chosen to sit alongside a major pharmaceutical company at this show. I have no idea how they square that, but that&#039;s their problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AmatsuHealth is still a sponsor but the contradiction is still there: many chiropractors appear to eschew conventional medicine and drugs, but have chosen to sit alongside a major pharmaceutical company at this show. I have no idea how they square that, but that&#8217;s their problem.</p>
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		<title>By: dizzyblonde</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-683</link>
		<dc:creator>dizzyblonde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-683</guid>
		<description>It seems that Nuerofen is a recent sponsor - the Back Show promo for earlier in the year stated that the main sponsor was a company called AmatsuHealth - japanese medicine. 

Rumour has it that they pulled out and the event organisers fell on nurofen&#039;s offer of £££££ in order to save the show. 

The BCA and other chiro organisers do not arrange the funding sponsors so it seems a tad petty to ridicule them for decisions they had no control over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that Nuerofen is a recent sponsor &#8211; the Back Show promo for earlier in the year stated that the main sponsor was a company called AmatsuHealth &#8211; japanese medicine. </p>
<p>Rumour has it that they pulled out and the event organisers fell on nurofen&#8217;s offer of £££££ in order to save the show. </p>
<p>The BCA and other chiro organisers do not arrange the funding sponsors so it seems a tad petty to ridicule them for decisions they had no control over.</p>
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		<title>By: Should chiropractors be endorsing an event sponsored by &#8220;Nurofen: back pain experts&#8221;? : Chiropracticlive.com</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>Should chiropractors be endorsing an event sponsored by &#8220;Nurofen: back pain experts&#8221;? : Chiropracticlive.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-679</guid>
		<description>[...] the sceptic who made most of the complaints to the GCC has just done a posting “We dont do drugs” highlighting again the in congruencies of the chiropractic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the sceptic who made most of the complaints to the GCC has just done a posting “We dont do drugs” highlighting again the in congruencies of the chiropractic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: osteopodder</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>osteopodder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-676</guid>
		<description>@cvb

Im not missing any point at all. I made the point i intended to make and it wasnt related to whether or not asthma can be &quot;cured&quot; by chiropractic. I was purely saying that their highlighting the risk of NSAID use was appropriate. 
I dont have any evidence for chiropractic working for asthma since as you well know, there isnt any (so why ask?). Chiropractic seems to work for low back pain and there&#039;s a fair bit of evidence  out there of fair quality. 
Dont twist what im saying about one thing and apply it to something else just to shit stir. If you want an open conversation about evidence and efficacy of manual therapy then lets do it, if you just want to stand there pointing and shouting then talk to someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cvb</p>
<p>Im not missing any point at all. I made the point i intended to make and it wasnt related to whether or not asthma can be &#8220;cured&#8221; by chiropractic. I was purely saying that their highlighting the risk of NSAID use was appropriate.<br />
I dont have any evidence for chiropractic working for asthma since as you well know, there isnt any (so why ask?). Chiropractic seems to work for low back pain and there&#8217;s a fair bit of evidence  out there of fair quality.<br />
Dont twist what im saying about one thing and apply it to something else just to shit stir. If you want an open conversation about evidence and efficacy of manual therapy then lets do it, if you just want to stand there pointing and shouting then talk to someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: cvb</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>cvb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-675</guid>
		<description>@Ostepodder

Yes in this one point you are correct. NSAID do have side effects and can cause harm. However you are missing the whole point, and that is that Chiropractic therapy is made up rubbish that does not work. Can you provide some robust evidence that it is proven to work and how it might help say Asthma as claimed above?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ostepodder</p>
<p>Yes in this one point you are correct. NSAID do have side effects and can cause harm. However you are missing the whole point, and that is that Chiropractic therapy is made up rubbish that does not work. Can you provide some robust evidence that it is proven to work and how it might help say Asthma as claimed above?</p>
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		<title>By: osteopodder</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-673</link>
		<dc:creator>osteopodder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-673</guid>
		<description>Do most people read those little leaflets which come with packs of Neurofen etc? I&#039;d be very surprised if they do, most people just neck &#039;em and wait for the effect to kick in. I  dont know the stats but it would interesting to know the proportion of the public who are aware of NSAID risk. It seems rather desperate to criticise any health care provider for informing the public of evidence informed levels of risk. You mention in your blog that chiropractors are &quot;not too keen on proper, evidence and science-based medicine&quot;, but these risk factors come from large and methodologically strong &quot;science-based&quot; studies, you cant complain on the one hand that chiropractic is not evidence based and on the other complain when they use good evidence as part of their patient management/education. 

It&#039;s also worth mentioning that the much publicised risk of VBI damage via cervical manipulation (1 in 1 - 2,000,000) is far less than the risk of death due to NSAID use (15.3 deaths per 100,000 in Spain, according to the link i posted above). 

Regards


Osteopodder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do most people read those little leaflets which come with packs of Neurofen etc? I&#8217;d be very surprised if they do, most people just neck &#8216;em and wait for the effect to kick in. I  dont know the stats but it would interesting to know the proportion of the public who are aware of NSAID risk. It seems rather desperate to criticise any health care provider for informing the public of evidence informed levels of risk. You mention in your blog that chiropractors are &#8220;not too keen on proper, evidence and science-based medicine&#8221;, but these risk factors come from large and methodologically strong &#8220;science-based&#8221; studies, you cant complain on the one hand that chiropractic is not evidence based and on the other complain when they use good evidence as part of their patient management/education. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also worth mentioning that the much publicised risk of VBI damage via cervical manipulation (1 in 1 &#8211; 2,000,000) is far less than the risk of death due to NSAID use (15.3 deaths per 100,000 in Spain, according to the link i posted above). </p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Osteopodder</p>
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		<title>By: Zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-669</guid>
		<description>Of course some medicines have side effects and some are serious!

But do you really think the chiropractors put those warnings there just in case someone forgets to read the information leaflet that comes with every proper medicine? Is this a public service chiropractors are providing free of charge?

No, they&#039;re there to plant the idea in a customer&#039;s head that they should eschew conventional medicine in favour of their brand of woo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course some medicines have side effects and some are serious!</p>
<p>But do you really think the chiropractors put those warnings there just in case someone forgets to read the information leaflet that comes with every proper medicine? Is this a public service chiropractors are providing free of charge?</p>
<p>No, they&#8217;re there to plant the idea in a customer&#8217;s head that they should eschew conventional medicine in favour of their brand of woo.</p>
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		<title>By: Skepticat</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>Skepticat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-668</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ve slightly missed the point, Osteopodder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ve slightly missed the point, Osteopodder.</p>
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		<title>By: Osteopodder</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator>Osteopodder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-666</guid>
		<description>Thought you might be interested in this link:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Gastroenterology/PepticUlcerDisease/1612

There are many reasons to mock the chiropractic world recently but the example you give of their warning about the risks associated with NSAID use isnt one of them. If you want to be taken seriously as a critical voice you should be a bit more selective in your choice of target.

Regards


Osteopodder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought you might be interested in this link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.medpagetoday.com/Gastroenterology/PepticUlcerDisease/1612" rel="nofollow">http://www.medpagetoday.com/Gastroenterology/PepticUlcerDisease/1612</a></p>
<p>There are many reasons to mock the chiropractic world recently but the example you give of their warning about the risks associated with NSAID use isnt one of them. If you want to be taken seriously as a critical voice you should be a bit more selective in your choice of target.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Osteopodder</p>
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		<title>By: Zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.zenosblog.com/2009/09/we-dont-do-drugs/comment-page-1/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenosblog.com/?p=418#comment-665</guid>
		<description>Michael Kingsford Gray said: &quot;Isn’t Neurophen “Big Pharma”?&quot;

Emmm...you&#039;d have thought so!

However, its manufacturer, Reckitt Benckiser Healthcare (UK) Limited, promotes woo on their nurofen.co.uk website. About &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nurofen.co.uk/well-being/holistic/homeopathy.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;homeopathy&lt;/a&gt;, they say:

&quot;Shown to work, for adults, children and plants!

But does homeopathy work? Well, research shows that a homeopathic effect does exist. Many adults, children, animals and even plants have been successfully treated with homeopathy. And studies at Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital have shown homeopathy to be effective in the treatment of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/hayfever1.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hay fever&lt;/a&gt;.&quot; 

This link is not to some peer reviewed reputable scientific article, but to a BBC story!

On &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nurofen.co.uk/well-being/holistic/chiropractic.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;chiropractic&lt;/a&gt;, they claim:

...chiropractic therapy can also help conditions such as:

* Hip problems
* Head, neck, chest pain
* Headaches and migraines
* Wrist, ankle, knee, elbow problems
* Asthma
* Menstrual disorders
* Indigestion and constipation

Asthma?!

Of course, it&#039;ll come as no surprise that the link on the page is to the British Chiropractic Association.

So, are Reckitt Benckiser Healthcare Big Pharma or Big Quacka?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Kingsford Gray said: &#8220;Isn’t Neurophen “Big Pharma”?&#8221;</p>
<p>Emmm&#8230;you&#8217;d have thought so!</p>
<p>However, its manufacturer, Reckitt Benckiser Healthcare (UK) Limited, promotes woo on their nurofen.co.uk website. About <a href="http://www.nurofen.co.uk/well-being/holistic/homeopathy.php" rel="nofollow">homeopathy</a>, they say:</p>
<p>&#8220;Shown to work, for adults, children and plants!</p>
<p>But does homeopathy work? Well, research shows that a homeopathic effect does exist. Many adults, children, animals and even plants have been successfully treated with homeopathy. And studies at Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital have shown homeopathy to be effective in the treatment of <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/hayfever1.shtml" rel="nofollow">hay fever</a>.&#8221; </p>
<p>This link is not to some peer reviewed reputable scientific article, but to a BBC story!</p>
<p>On <a href="http://www.nurofen.co.uk/well-being/holistic/chiropractic.php" rel="nofollow">chiropractic</a>, they claim:</p>
<p>&#8230;chiropractic therapy can also help conditions such as:</p>
<p>* Hip problems<br />
* Head, neck, chest pain<br />
* Headaches and migraines<br />
* Wrist, ankle, knee, elbow problems<br />
* Asthma<br />
* Menstrual disorders<br />
* Indigestion and constipation</p>
<p>Asthma?!</p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;ll come as no surprise that the link on the page is to the British Chiropractic Association.</p>
<p>So, are Reckitt Benckiser Healthcare Big Pharma or Big Quacka?</p>
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