Taking Osteopathy in Hand
An advert for a local osteopath appeared in my local free paper.
You know what’s coming next…
I’ve just sent the following complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority:
The advert makes claims about the following medical conditions:
Aches and pains
Lower back pain
Sciatica and slipped disc
Frozen shoulder & RSI
Arthritis & joint stiffness
Headaches & migraines
Whiplash & neck pain
Stress
Occupational injuries.I challenge whether:
1. osteopathy treatment is effective for any of these conditions;
2. the ad breaches the Code because it could discourage readers from seeking treatment of serious medical conditions, such as whiplash, by medically qualified practitioners.
It doesn’t need any more than that.
I’ll keep you updated and I’ll be blogging on the General Osteopathic Council‘s Code of Practice sometime soon.
Update: 26 July 2009
Enter the name of the clinic into Google and this blog post is already the first hit. Second hit is the clinic’s own website, Head 2 Toe UK.
126 Responses to Taking Osteopathy in Hand
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Peer review in disrepute, what the hell is your standard, evening?
ban the posters that sus the bull said (or whatever):
What on earth are you on about?
As anyone can see, your comments have not been suspended or banned, but I would remind you of the rules and suggest that if you want to continue commenting here, you think carefully about what you say and how you say it.
You know well you have blocked posting, that is why one has to keep changing the name. Pharma puppet
Now you have started a new thread so that the previous trashing of your ridiculous position is subtlety lost in the cyber ether. Can’t wait for your public presentation.
So all the public has to do Alan is expose your weaknesses, which are too long to list here, and you magically shorten the thread to something more palatable to your mates over at the septic tank.
Nope, you’re still talking nonsense.
I have found two of your comments in amongst the 200-odd spam comments I got yesterday and I’ll publish them shortly. As anyone can see, I have not blocked you from commenting. However, persist in your behaviour and I will.
‘spam’ that’s interesting moderation
How does one find the previous 55 posts in this thread?
You don’t get many posters do you Alan?
Comments identified as spam automatically go into the spam bin and I get no notification of them. Some comments are automatically held for moderation and I have to decide whether to accept or reject them. Your comments were automatically sent to the spam bin along with the porn, etc. I had to find them and retrieve them manually.
If you mean comments, click on the ‘Older comments’ link.
Not many civil, sensible ones recently, no.
So how do you identify spam then?
Are you telling us that ‘properly trained doctors’ that are prescribing painkillers, anti metabolites and TNFI drugs to ‘treat’ arthritis are sane, scientific and truthful? The whole of the medical world you seem to judge everything else by is in disrepute, ex editors of BMJ NEJM have all gone on record as saying nothing published in a medical peer reviewed journal can be believed due to funding corruption issues.
So what evidence do you have that the ‘properly trained doctor’ is doing anything ethical, morally correct or truthful in the above scenario?
an the sussers of the bull said:
I don’t.
So you avoid discussing anything that knocks holes in your castle. Explain how one minute a poster is not spam, the next minute they are?
I await your comments on medical quackery Zeno/Alan, what is ethical, honest or truthful about prescribing painkillers, anti metabolites and then TNFI’s for arthritis. Assuming you can’t engage with this directly I will make an analogy.
If I took my car to a mechanic with oil warning light on and he gave me earplugs would you be impressed, if he called it ‘benign Knockyitis’ would that make it scientific?
Come on Alan, where’s your sense of adventure? More leaks about the ‘proper doctors’ show they are killing more people using public money than any homeopaths you can name. How is the ASA deciding what is and is not ‘quality peer reviewed’ research then? What exactly is the point you are trying to make? If you had no ‘interests’ you would be proportionate about your campaign.
The Coalition Against Bayer pharmaceuticals (CBG) announces that Bayer and Baxter settled a multi-million dollar compensation suit with hemophiliacs in 22 countries who were victims, infected with HIV or hepatitis C having been infused with tainted blood plasma products in the 1980s. In 2003, The New York Times reported that a division of Bayer pharmaceutical knowingly continued to sell its AIDS infected blood product to countries in Asia and Latin America to get rid of inventory.
The Bayer-Baxter settlement prohibits the victims and their lawyers from speaking about the arrangement. Philipp Mimkes from the Coalition (CBG) welcomes the settlement, but asks: “why is BAYER concealing the payments? Why are the media not able to report on this precedent? It is outrageous that the companies who knowingly infected thousands of haemophiliacs are blackmailing the victims not to talk about this important development!” An important aspe ct of this case–which the Times called “one of the worst drug-related medical disasters in history”–is the culpability of the FDA.
Where is the ‘evidence’ that ‘proper regulation’ is either safe or in the interests of the public with regard to access to quality health care when the orthodox systems of training, regulation, research and practice are full of corruption?
This is not the technical support department for WordPress — I suggest you contact them if you want more details about how their software works.
Gee whizz you are so slow. Right that’s the easy one that doesn’t challenge your belief system too much.
Now let’s have an answer from the great Zeno:
Where is the ‘evidence’ that ‘proper regulation’ is either safe or in the interests of the public with regard to access to quality health care when the orthodox systems of training, regulation, research and practice are full of corruption?
Making these even more basic:
We now know that pharmaceutical research chooses not to publish negative results with regard to drug licensing and approval. This has been shown to be a big reason behind many of the ‘drug disasters’ that have in some cases like the anti arthritis drug Vioxx let to 160,000 attributed deaths worldwide. In a nut shell the company witheld data that showed it massively increased heart attack rates, one coronor said at autopsy the hearts of these victims look like shotgun wounds.
Just to remind you, these drugs were approved and passed by all the orthodox regulators.
So let’s have a positive discussion about the context of saftey and regulation Zeno, taking out a few nutters who promise cures is one thing, I don’t know anyone who has a problem with that.
There are serious problems with what you seem to accept as ‘valid’ and ‘truthful’, the book ‘trick or treatment’ is a self referrential torrent of nonsense really and if it represents your position I don’t see how your campaign is more than a corporate distraction to the real fire going on in the orthodox system of healthcare.
If all the alternatives were killing babies and more a) they wouldn’t be able to get insurance to work and b) common law is already enough to take them out.
What is the purpose of your effort?
I wonder if you can have even the slightest understanding of why I don’t feel particularly inclined to answer someone who has been so abusive and downright rude to me and others?
Well there we are the Achilles heel of the septic tank reveals itself. Now we know where your coming from, not very deep, not very informed and rather Sun reader in intellect.
Say hello to the pussy cat for us, one day you may just climb out of that little hole you have made for yourself and realise that no one is listening. As the world of vaccine support crumbles into chaos you can count yourself amoung the believers that kept this arcane practice alive.
Smell the fear or is it something else, can’t wait for your public debut.
LOL! Thanks for the entertainment!
“So let’s get this right anecdoticat…Quoting yet another septic site at me isn’t science.”
Actually, anonymous one, I didn’t quote anything at you. In response to your request for information about murderous alternative therapists, I provided you with a link to a site that has many more links to many different sources of stories of people who have suffered and died at the hands of people like yourself. When an ‘anecdote’ is backed by a coroner’s report, it stops being an anecdote and becomes data. Take it or leave it. It’s between you and your conscience.
I glanced at a couple of your numerous remaining posts but, given how all your posts thus far have indicated not only a closed mind but a total lack of ability to engage with serious arguments on a serious subject in a civil and intelligent manner, I can’t be arsed to read them properly. (There’s a moral in there somewhere, if only you had the brains to realise it.)
In any event, I see from the contents list on this blog that there are about a hundred posts here. Not a single one of them is about vaccines, so I’ve no idea why you’ve even raised the topic. Then again, I suppose anti-vax loonies think they don’t need an excuse to have a rant, which is why they sound like loonies. Especially when their rants are peppered with infantile abuse and posted in rapid succession. (If I thought you’d take any notice, I’d suggest you go and have your nervous breakdown somewhere else – it’s most unbecoming but not unprecedented for a quack to go into meltdown round here, lol.)
As far as I’m concerned, the subject of vaccines is closed. I researched the topic thoroughly, considered all the arguments and decided that my children would get all the jabs they were recommended to get and I’ve never had cause to regret that decision, especially in light of the re-emergence of infectious diseases, which should have and would have been eliminated were it not for people like you, but are instead returning to kill children.
Blood on your hands, anonymous one. Shame on you.
Ah the cat returns.
So far none of you seem able to discuss the double standard in ASA requirements, perhaps it’s just too much to realise you are backing a huge religious movement called medical science. This is relevant to the whole blog, it is the core reason you are promoting as a reason to be here on this mission.
Medical science, It has no theories, no hypothesis but plenty of dishonesty, flawed research to back up it’s position. This is the standard you are using to judge others!
No wonder you don’t discuss vaccination, it has no evidence base, it has it’s own rules on limited trials and not publishing results. I bring it up as an example of the double standards you support, there are plenty more that you seem unable to discuss, ironically it’s like discussing the devil with a god believer really.
Even the noble Zeno seems unable to discuss the corruption in peer reviewed medical journals, does that not interest you? I find it rather unbelievable that you are not of their world, does open evidence that the evidence you believe in is complete bullshit? For a women of science that doesn’t stack up, unless you are medical scientist that is, more concerned with PR than facts.
I can’t wait till you guys do something public.
So what do you think Catgirl about the BBC getting the WHO to reveal ‘confidential documents’ showing that vaccinated babies had a 41% higher mortality than non vaccinated? That is not my data, I am not pro or anti I am only interested in the data so I don’t know why you can’t discuss it, it’s a fact. Perhaps you can’t face the wrong decision you made? I genuinely feel sorry for you over that and have compassion for your dilemma.
What books did you read to make the decision to vaccinate, I am really interested in how you came to this decision when so many people are not doing it, please share with us you insight. Can you tell us which diseases are coming back and where this is happening or is that another urban myth?
See my previous reply.
For a group impersonating scientists you are quite remarkable in your approach.
You have a point of view, shame it’s wrong, misinformed and fantasy, but I suppose that is the muse of the religious fraternity.
You know, if you don’t want an alternative you don’t have to do it, the rest of us who are paying into the NHS disease management system don’t have a choice and that’s the real fraud.
As for the cat I have no idea what her position is on anything, Missionary?
@ ballesscatmuncher:
I have tried to find reference to the WHO data you mentioned – rather than spending ages searching, would you be able to verify where you heard that? Something I would like to take a look at.
Thanks.
Here’s one for the ASA and trading standards Zeno, how many people are being told that the swine flu jab can cause narcolepsy?
The Chief Medical Officer of Finland’s National Public Health Institute has conceded that it may have been unnecessary to vaccinate children and young people against swine flu. Dr Terhi Kilpi told the Väli-Suomi newspaper group’s Sunday newspaper supplement that perhaps the vaccine should not have been given to 5-20 year-olds.
Kilpi said that she would no longer recommend the vaccination for this age group. She added that if she had known of the potential consequences, she would have not inoculated 5-20 year-olds. “A year ago, the current understanding was that the swine flu was a danger specifically for the young. At that time there was not yet any reason to suspect serious side effects to the vaccine,” said Kilpi.
The vaccine is now suspected to be linked to an increase in the number of cases of narcolepsy affecting children and young people in Finland, Sweden and Iceland. In Finland, 54 children have been diagnosed with narcolep sy. Even though it is under suspicion, the vaccine has been reintroduced in the UK.
YLE, fi
Hi SJG, yes it’s disgusting that the WHO can experiment on children, but I suppose you could say that ‘exposing vaccine protection myths’ may have been worth it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x4013
“Richard Phinney reports from the West African country of Guinea Bissau, where a team of Danish and African medical sleuths (under Dr Peter Aaby) have pieced together evidence that could change public health care forever. They have discovered that vaccines and vitamin supplements have unexpected effects – good and bad – on the immune systems of children…. Their health detective work (over 30 years documenting 100,000 people) has generated more than 600 scholarly articles in the world’s leading medical journals, and been responsible for the withdrawal of a potentially deadly measles vaccine by the World Health Organisation.
But the WHO has not acted on the most explosive findings yet coming from Guinea Bissau. They show that the world’s most commonly used vaccines can weaken – a child’s immune system in the long term, and affect their ability to fight off disease.
The results directly challenge the WHO’s global health advice, followed by most countries in the developing world, and could mean that thousands of young lives, in Africa and beyond, are needlessly at risk.”
They found specific problems with the DTP and mixing with other vaccines…between 2months – 9 months there is an increase of 50% for all types of mortality. Furthermore, if girls receive a vitamin A supplement at birth and then have the DTP the mortality increases by 41%, so much for the ‘protective advice’ from properly trained doctors, but then most people don’t trust them anyway.
ASAwhydon’tyou?
Please let us all know if you find an advert for the swine flu jab that claims it doesn’t cause narcolepsy. You then can submit a complaint to the ASA via their complaints page and to Trading Standards on the Consumer Direct website. Or perhaps you’d like to complain to the MHRA, who licence medicines.
Informed consent and the Ashfar ruling makes it clear Zeno ‘any known significant side effect, however slight has to be made known to the recipient of any treatment in order for them to make an informed consent to treatment’
It is simply not scientific to withold known information, but that is what the proper doctor medical research world has done for a long time and is still doing.
Double standards for double dealing.
I don’t see narcolepsy being listed along with many other known devestating side effects either, I suppose you would say as it’s ‘proper medicine delivered by proper doctors it’s ok, under the Bolam principle to cripple a few for the greater good?’
Thing is the Bolam principle is now out of date, like vaccination.
amazingrace
So, have you submitted a complaint to the MHRA? And do you agree the same principle about ‘any known side-effect’ should apply to, say, chiropractors?
Of course. When we look at ‘known side-effects’ we have to make sure that the data is not biased like often happens in meta reviews where ‘cherry picking’ is rife. Ernst is an expert at this, never does any research of his own only picks what he likes and then publishes.
So, have you written your complaints yet?
Unfortunately there is plenty of data out there Zeno, the medical industry, the researchers and the doctors who are aware of the mess of medical regulation all know that it is impossible to change anything from the bottom up.
Tom Jefferson of the Cochraine Collaboration recently highlighted the total scandal in drug regulation, peer review and how effectively the endemic fraud in the ‘proper medical system’ is.
I as an ordinary member of the public have no chance whatsoever in getting anywhere with a ‘medical complaint’ they even have their own ‘medical complaints thang the MHRA.
Your task by contrast is totally easy, you use a public service, the ASA or trading standards, to complain about something that the orthodox system wants to abolish, whether it is effective or not, and it doesn’t cost you a penny.
I would be more impressed with your efforts Zeno if you put it into something more society useful like banning childhood vaccines, but of course that would require questioning the status quo and looking at the evidence properly.
Banning alternative approaches to health is not really in the interests of anyone except big pharma. I know you state that you have no interest in the corporate world but by default your head is up their arse.
Sometimes we need to be told by people that care, that we need to wash, so get the soap out.
That’s very disappointing, doublestandard. You say there is a serious problem out there, yet you seem to have given up before you’ve even started. You don’t seem to be willing to even try to do anything about it; not even submit a complaint — you just shrug your shoulders and have a bit of a moan and mutter stuff about dark conspiracies.
Very disappointing indeed, doublestandard.
It’s better to educate on the ground, validating corrupt ‘agencies’ to make decisions to pull methods they have already validated is not the way to achieve anything Zeno.
Many have been campaigning for a long time to highlight the corruption, that is a daily task which has instant results.
As the drop off for vaccination rates in educated families ramps up, this process will mean the end of the practice by financial default. After Wakefield brought the tragedy of measles vaccine to the attention of the public if we look at the measles rates pre Wakefield and compare them to post Wakefield the subsequent non take up of MMR lead to an 85% drop in measles rates.
I am not interested in conspiracy theories, I just see business decisions being made, if you really think that using the Queens’ rules to rule out the Queen is an intelligent way to proceed you perhaps need to rethink what you think you are doing.
It is much better to spend ones time giving people proper information so that they can make a properly informed decision, if we allow the state to make all the decisions we end up with a USA style democracy which effectively means no democracy. Business runs the country, look at the banking system, why do you trust this system to make truthful decisions Zeno?
double standard said:
Why? Is it not better to tackle it using all the legal routes provided? A win there would have far greater benefit to society if you are right in your assertions.
But this thread is not about vaccines or banks and I have never blogged about them, so this is all off-topic. I suggest you find a blog that talks about the disgraced Wakefield and try presenting your evidence there. Even better, you might like to contact your MP and see what he or she can do to help, particularly if you think people are suffering needlessly. I’m sure he or she will be equally concerned.
So why continue to bring them up, then?
I started reading comments bottom up so don’t know how you got on to vaccines but I got as far as this:
“Your task by contrast is totally easy, you use a public service, the ASA or trading standards, to complain about something that the orthodox system wants to abolish, whether it is effective or not, and it doesn’t cost you a penny.” (my bold)
What things do you have in mind that the “orthodox system wants to abolish” even though they are effective?
Don’t worry Zeno and Jrm The International Medical Council on Vaccination has released a groundbreaking report signed by over 80 doctors, surgeons, clinicians and researchers who all refute the mythology and propaganda of the vaccine industry.
http://www.naturalnews.com/031173_vaccines_science.html
So the campaign is well under way, by co incidence I met an immunologist today who after working in this world of myth for years has just had a baby.
She has decided after considering the evidence that she is definetely not vaccinating her new child as the evidence for efficacy is non existant.
JRM you can’t use Trading standards or ASA for medically orientated complaints, if you read the site you will find they are automatically refered them to the MHRA.
The only way forward is to bypass these gatekeepers and blow the gaff on it wikileaks syle and that seems to be starting to happen.
Thanks for your support Zeno but it looks like matters are in hand.
LOL! A wise man or woman would not be taking their health advice from the self-styled ‘Health Ranger’!
However, you still have a problem: the IMCV seems to have their hands full trying to convince the US authorities and citizens. I really think you should take your evidence to the MHRA — you may have to wait a long time before the IMCV can concentrate on the UK.
That’s rich coming from a man who worships the only professor of complementary and alternative medicine who has no qualifications in any complementary or alternative therapy, that extracts anecdotes from thin air and claims to be the almighty, does no research of his own and writes for the Daily Mail.
And sing simple Simon too! The tricky bollocks fable, a book full of self referential references, no wonder I could buy a signed copy on ebay for a couple of quid.
Did you look at the charted downfall of the quackmaster general, looks like Barretts in the Berty Bassett.
You had improved sooo much today until that last one!
However, please don’t be diverted from making appropriate complaints.
I’m not interested in vaccines. I’ll repeat my question in the hope that you will give a straightforward answer. You said:
“Your task by contrast is totally easy, you use a public service, the ASA or trading standards, to complain about something that the orthodox system wants to abolish, whether it is effective or not, and it doesn’t cost you a penny.”
And I asked:
What things do you have in mind that the “orthodox system wants to abolish” even though they are effective?
If you are unable to give a straight answer to this very simple question, I will take that as confirmation that you are nowt but a troll and wind-up merchant. The ball is in your court.
Well looks like it’s balls all round then Jrm, it’s fun here, you can post what you like and read what people like you try to think, which isn’t very interesting actually. Do you read any books at all, or listen to much music?
What a fascinating and wonderful world the septic tank is, can’t wait for something more public to turn up to.
Just noticed that skeptics uk is now defunct, that took them rather a long time to admit, perhaps they all got atoned?
It’s amazing what Reiki can achieve with distance healing.
Chiropractic wellness on the web: The content and quality of information related to wellness and primary prevention on the Internet
Marion WILLARD Evans Jr, Stephen M Perle and Harrison Ndetan
An interesting article of how chiro’s see web content.
“Website content could be enhanced by sharing of information from reputable sources like US Centres for Disease Control, the National Institutes of Health and other authoritative sources. HON certification should also be sought.
but none had information supportive of vaccination.”
The CDC is well known to only promote ‘therapies’ that generate income for private companies and is well behind the current scam of swine flu so how could any site be ‘enhanced’ by referring to nonsense posted on the CDC site?
Why would any site that doesn’t benefit from ‘vaccine scam’ promote this archaic practice?
Skeptics Uk forum dying must say something for the tenacity of the septic posters really, I wonder if their energy/funding ran out at the same time as the closure of drug company Pfizer’s UK base in Kent?
Coincidence or just sound business sense, if the product isn’t selling, don’t sell it. I must add that the ridiculous stance by the septic hardcore on that site especially with regard to its almost religious mania at supporting the vaccine stance caused much mirth all round.
Must be hard when the public don’t support you and the funding dries up, sort of shows up how shallow they were.
horizontalbop said:
Again, nothing whatsoever to do with this blog, but I don’t suppose you have any more than hand-waving, vague assertions for any of that, do you? You know, that boring stuff called evidence.